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Post by cetellic on Sept 24, 2008 5:05:43 GMT -5
1.Wrong, A was the correct answer. You want to debate dishonestly, proving I won this weeks ago, before it even started HAHAHAHA MUHAHHHAHAHA FWUHAHAHA KWAKAKAKAKA... Ka... ka... ah my throat... laughing like that messed up my beautiful vocal chords =( the point is mine though =)
2.Clel = Lame? Nice way of changing the question but you didn't answer the one I presented... so hun I win
3.Sword and bombs use the same script once you're in the position of which damage is inflicted. So your point that they're different is false. I win again Gladdums <3
Crowd:BOO CLEL SUCKS!!! HE ALWAYS WINS!!! OMFG!!!
4.In Cats and Dogs you cannot target one person specifically and kill their chances of winning, should you do you are subjected to corruptness. It is possible, but not allowed, name one event where you're ALLOWED to be biased haha. Fourth win for Clelly
5.Everyone assumes newbs will mess up the game thus bias is held towards them =) fifth win.
Crowd:WAY TO GO CLEL!!! HE JUST WANTED SOME CASH FOR HIS WIFE AND KIDS!!! YOU ALWAYS GOTTA SCREW UP LIVES!!!
6.This was not why I can't be captain or pick Deo and Night. Therefore I win =)
And yes sweetheart, those negative remarks against Cat (or his actions) were uncalled for. Which is why Night brought you back to earth on the subject. See I've won, the Night = win button is so true, now if only you got his approval.
SHOWS OVER FOLKS!!!
Crowd:BOOO WORST SHOW EVER!!!!
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Post by MysticX2X on Sept 24, 2008 5:45:47 GMT -5
Gladius and Mystic, or should I just say Gladius cause Mystic admit you're just a echo. But debating is not that hard, and you two have proven not to debate by standards of which weed out the greater good. You feel the need to denounce my points in a near completely mis-understood debate, thus proving your ignorance on the subject. I really dont like to debate on topics as one sided as this one. You can argue all you like, but if your so mis-guided as to say "only laggers can win lag debates", there's no point. Here's ways you can prove spike laggers should be kicked at the same rate of tappers. 1.Have a spike lagger alone go up against a all 8 HP 4 man defense on the stairs, should he score a single point it'd prove spike laggers can move through people. A spike lagger honestly wouldn't be able to handle a 3 defense or even 2 man defense if each player had 8 hearts and defended correctly. 2.Have a spike lagger spar someone with a very accurate connection like Mighty, as we all know spike laggers have very inaccurate hitboxes so they can't hit people as easily but can be hit easier due to the server believing their in multiple places at once. Mighty would rape them. What does all this mean? Spike laggers are worse at hunting, guarding, defending, and flag running but have better offensive capabilites. 3.Prove to me that only spike laggers have that kind of recoil, do you guys even know how the recoil system works? Everyone can recoil like that, in fact I do it in hardcore spars where I let myself get hit by a bomb explosion and force my recoil to where ever my opponent is. Moving through recoil surprises people cause it's quicker + I get invincibility frames, so it's generally a free hit for me, explain why this tactic should be impossible for me to use. Here's ways you can win the Captain + Player Choice debate. 4.Find me one event that lets you be biased towards players, the fact that you threw up a vote because Cat was captain was biased. Power of the people does not make bad things good. It simply doesn't work like that and shouldn't be in the GC's nature for any reason. 5.Explain how treating everyone equally (letting the players play) is not equal. Everyone who sends in their account is presented with the same options from beginning to end, so your claim of innocent player being picked by bad captain is false, cause the innocent player could have became captain to prevent from being on bad captain's horrid team. 6.Prove that I messed up those CTFs by picking Night and Deo, I picked those two alone based on experimentation. So just explain why I can't pick Deo and Night for my first two picks anymore and why I can't be captain at all since we got flawed in small, which totally is against competitive regulation. Ways to win the respect debate. Well first get on topic, the respect debate was about GC's respecting players, and was targetted at your disrespect towards noob/pathetic players. If you don't even understand what the debate is about, why do you feel qualified to type meaningless paragraphs about it? Second if you don't want to hear it from me just take your actions up towards higher powers such as Storm, Bell, Night, and have them corruptly say you're allowed to do such, there's nothing I can do against that. In fact just have Night rule in your favor for each of these, I'm sure that'll pwn me asap. Not too big into star wars actually, but people kept going IT'S A TRAP!!! Guess that's why but enough childish side arguments, I've laid out these points of which if you prove in your favor would be a wonderful way to take each debate with ease. I doubt neither you nor Mystic can do such which is why I believe I got this debate won and feel the need to goof off cause apparently you guys aren't here to debate. Prove me wrong. Time to refute this. Clel being a wimp eh? Can't take the heat from the guy he's getting owned most by so he looks for a scapegoat. Typical. 1. ALL types of lag can get past defense easily. You think Oni would be better if he didn't lag? Hell no. Lag is unfair to some and it depends on how bad someone is lagging. Night lags a bit but it's not bad at all to kick/remove flags from him. I have no clue where you are coming at with this. We abolished the tapping debate but i proved my point spike laggers and tappers can still be hit like you said with your laggers can be hit point. They can still be hit easily but they also get the flag easily. What weighs more? Scoring or getting hit easily? 2. Your point? We know spike laggers have more inabilities than abilities. 3.We aren't talking about your recoil or SPIKE LAGGER RECOIL. All of us would kick spike laggers given the time they attack, we know this. But the debate is on the validity of laggers. Oni and Thor (his former connection), had messy recoils due to the fact they lagged. This was a disadvantage to us all, though Thor didnt have lag as bad as Oni so he wasn't warned/kicked much. Seriously, what the **** are you trying to debate here? We're not talking about you. 4. Clel, you're confused with the fact this isn't a democracy. Glad was kind enough to let the fellow players decide whether they want a good captain or poo captain. And i can't blame Glad either. Gotenks is 95 percent of the reason why teams lose. He plays so he can make a team mad at him, and is resembling princess jade in her early days of CTF (Keep in mind she still sucks). Though Night doesn't allow it much, we will continue to urge for more quality captains. I even did team picking so the people got the picks they wanted (Sort of like the TT Tourney assemblings), though gotenks though i was being unfair because nobody wanted him at all. 5. Equal to the sense that nobody really has a liability. A lot of people don't captain because they usually like to see who they are up against. But keep in mind, if gotenks or somebody volunteers, we will then get a flood of experienced people wanting to be cap to prevent a horrible game. 6. You all are experienced CTF players. Just because you have a greater ratio of losing doesn't qualify you to make us feel not to let you captain. I'll let any person, who knows how the event works and each players ability, to be captain. You're so stuck up in your own mind that you don't know what the **** are you talking about. You instantly find some point to spike laggers that's clearly the obvious. We know Night doesn't encourage us singling some players out, but it's all really for the good of the game. I for one hate having to deal with a bad captain and having all of the team leaves once they realize how owned they're getting. I let a UN noob cap like a month ago and she picked all her UN friends. Guess what happened? They got flawed and the UN noobs didn't even know how to play.
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Post by cetellic on Sept 24, 2008 6:20:58 GMT -5
You're late to the show Mystie boy, your points are already countered however.
1.The argument was that spike laggers can move through players. 4 man D, on the stairs, spike lagging offender. Can he score should they all have 8 HP and never leave the stairs? If it is yes please provide video proof.
2.My point? Spike laggers get raped and would not score as they'd die before hand.
3.CTF Sumo Gladius said his attacks knocked them into his base as a reason why they're unfair. You must prove it's impossible for the same to happen to me, which is impossible, it's already happened numerous times per game.
4.You did not present an event which allowed biasness.
5.Doesn't prove why treating everyone equal from beginning to end is not equal.
6.You must explain why I can't pick Deo and Night, aswell as why I can't captain, because of the flaw we suffered. Any "well we'll let you capt because" rules in my favor. Same with "Well you can pick Deo and Night because..."
If you're hard of hearing these 6 things were things you MUST DO in order to win the debate, anything otherwise has already been countered, or has no point in being countered. Failure to DO these things hands the win to me.
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Post by Rufus on Sept 24, 2008 7:11:03 GMT -5
Gladius lol.. Clel only believes he's achieving something because you keep responding to his huge posts with even bigger ones, but a lot of your replies are discussing his specific points in a general sense when most of the things he has mentioned have various specifics to them that are being overlooked.
On the other hand, when Clel talks in a general sense you're arguing on specifics and at the point where he is arguing in a general sense, such as fairness in games, arguing specific cases just isn't appropriate in what he's asking you to reply with. For example, you brought up the fact that Cat captained and the players didn't like it but Cat has played a few games now, he should know who to pick? Generally when a noob captain picks their first player, that player will then advise/force choice the rest of the team picks. If someone has opted for captain for the intention of screwing over some players, in general they get removed. When somebody joins a team to screw over their team, they get removed. These are general GC rules of thumb, but you're giving your own specific opinions and I don't know if they come out when you host, but Clel is picking at that a lot in this so-called debate.
When he asks for specifics give him specifics, until then talk into a general sense because currently he's twisting it around and making you look dumb. If I didn't agree with what Clel was saying then I would have replied to him myself, and I think some of the points that are being said are valid to the point where they can't really be argued. It's just a case of just biting the bullet and accepting it, else neither of you have really achieved anything.
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Post by Gemini on Sept 24, 2008 12:29:34 GMT -5
Aside from this, new CTF Sumo map bout to be released. cool when and wuts it like
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Post by gladius on Sept 24, 2008 12:37:15 GMT -5
Yeah when I get done with class today I'll quote myself several times because I've already killed all of clel's arguements, he just has to behind his game show facade to make it look like he's clever.
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Post by MysticX2X on Sept 24, 2008 15:35:21 GMT -5
You're late to the show Mystie boy, your points are already countered however. 1.The argument was that spike laggers can move through players. 4 man D, on the stairs, spike lagging offender. Can he score should they all have 8 HP and never leave the stairs? If it is yes please provide video proof. 2.My point? Spike laggers get raped and would not score as they'd die before hand. 3.CTF Sumo Gladius said his attacks knocked them into his base as a reason why they're unfair. You must prove it's impossible for the same to happen to me, which is impossible, it's already happened numerous times per game. 4.You did not present an event which allowed biasness. 5.Doesn't prove why treating everyone equal from beginning to end is not equal. 6.You must explain why I can't pick Deo and Night, aswell as why I can't captain, because of the flaw we suffered. Any "well we'll let you capt because" rules in my favor. Same with "Well you can pick Deo and Night because..." If you're hard of hearing these 6 things were things you MUST DO in order to win the debate, anything otherwise has already been countered, or has no point in being countered. Failure to DO these things hands the win to me. 1. There is no argument. Nobody can get past the 4 mand on stairs unless one person dies or one person moves out to **** it up. 2.They'd rape on a 3 man D or in CTF Sumo. Retard. 3.You don't lag as bad as Oni nor do you have a poo recoil like Oni 4. No event allows biasedness. But sometimes us GC's have to do what benefits right. 5. So you want us to be as equal as possible having a noob captain pick a team full of idiots so a game can be thrown off? Shut the hell up Clel. 6. Didn't we already mention to your thick skull that we let any person, who has some experience with the event, captain?
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Post by gladius on Sept 24, 2008 15:49:22 GMT -5
Clel, honestly, look at the team you "experimented" with. I'm not sure what gametype it was, nor the rest of your team nor the opponent you were playing. But taking lag, luck, timing, and teamwork into account, honestly how many games out of 10 can you guys win? Clel until you answer this question truthfully I'll still be waiting for the check with the money you promised.
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Post by cetellic on Sept 24, 2008 17:50:33 GMT -5
I've told you what you needed to do to take the debate. If you want to fool around, dodge questions, take stuff out of context and call it facts you're only wasting everyone's time. You two are not helping the GC team by debating for your own selfish reasons. Lets piece it together... Debate started with Mystic wanted to debate Kill not being higher then him, ego trip? It expanded from there to the "WELL WTF ONI AINT THAT HIGH JUST CAUSE HE LAGS", now the lag debate is in. It wasn't until Oni ran wild and I corrected you on your mistreatment to Cat where you Gladius got pissed "WTF YOU DON'T EVEN HOST NO MORE STFU", it's stuff like that to me is like blood on a shark's nose, you want to debate? It's on! So there we have it, we debate. You tried to defend your actions against Cat, then you tried to say "well they were against Cat's actions", you should've said that from the beginning firstly and secondly it's still against Cat, no matter how many little sub categories you put it in. The whole time I knew why you felt entitled to hang on despite being defeated "well everyone else is with me on this so we can't all be wrong right?". Which is why eventually you went with your whole "power of the people" thing. Saying the people have your back, well where are they? I want to see them, so I can hand each of you your @sses at the same time. I'm the one who let Oni kick you and Mystic's tail, and now I have you and Mystic debating me in complete immature fashion - it doesn't take a genius to figure out why, it's pure grudge material. Like this: Before the Oni inccident - Also @ Clel. The only real issues I had with the list was having Kevin in high tier, and having Crono so low. After the Oni inccident - I don't use/look at/care about the UGCC. What does it say? Since no tier list is official other than mine. Clearly. Especially clel's pathetic excuse for a tier list. And just look at the nature of both of you guys' posts, you guys have something AGAINST me. Look at my posts, I don't know how to debate people who just won't admit defeat, who are out to get me instead of trying to weed out the greater good. You guys stated tons of false statements, I can quote them all + explain why they're false if you want me to, but you'd debate it for sure "NO THAT WASN'T FALSE NU HUH" or make up excuses "Well I did that cause you were doing that". You guys can not / will not prove your case that laggers are unfair, so there's no point in fighting it to begin with since you cannot win unless when someone asks for proof you can present it.
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Post by gladius on Sept 24, 2008 18:23:15 GMT -5
Clel, honestly, look at the team you "experimented" with. I'm not sure what gametype it was, nor the rest of your team nor the opponent you were playing. But taking lag, luck, timing, and teamwork into account, honestly how many games out of 10 can you guys win? Clel until you answer this question truthfully I'll still be waiting for the check with the money you promised. Answer the question so I can begin my response to all your bs.
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Post by cetellic on Sept 24, 2008 19:14:02 GMT -5
Clel until you answer this question truthfully I'll still be waiting for the check with the money you promised. Answer the question so I can begin my response to all your bs. It does not require an answer. It's simple, you failed to explain why it was experimentation that caused the results, which is why I didnt bother. Lets say I picked Night and Deo for perfect competitive causes and got flawed by Mystic's team. Night and Deo are both viable choices by your logic so it's all good. Now lets say it's the same exact situation, picked Night and Deo for experimental causes and got flawed. Then you'd assume experimental causes are bad.
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Post by gladius on Sept 24, 2008 21:13:03 GMT -5
First off, answer the question.
Second off, I explained it in an example of two made up teams. Maybe if you listed the rest of your team, the other team, and the gametype, I could further explain anything you want me to. If you're going to keep giving me half-ass information and expect a book report about it, I'll continue to wait for your answer to my question.
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Post by cetellic on Sept 25, 2008 0:45:06 GMT -5
This shall stick to the six ways you can win, now you've given a response to it but it's already proven false. Why should I give you an answer to a false question? =)
Let me explain how I'm walking you through this.
You asked a question, I ignore it cause it's crap, you believe your question is somehow powerful since I avoided it, I know it's not powerful. Now you don't know if I can smite your question or not... well not for sure. You can assume I'm all bluff, go ahead, but what if I'm not? I win? What if I am? Well I've presented six ways to win this debate, none of which you can do. I win anyway.
Let me shut down the fact that I'm not bluffing at all - you can drop your question, else should I refute it I take the entire argument, if I cannot you take the entire argument. So if you really want me to pwn your question you've agreed to drop the debate in my favor should things not go your way.
You're trapped, unless I'm bluffing of course. But why would I bluff, since you're obviously going to keep your question in play. What I've done here is map the win/lose conditions to a very simple form. One topic, one debate, winner takes all. If you don't want that you can always try to tackle the six ways to win it.
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Post by gladius on Sept 25, 2008 10:30:08 GMT -5
If you know the question isn't powerful, then y so scared?
Answer the question if you're truly the golden ctf messiah.
+ here's your win/loss conditions:
Glad, the spokesperson for competitive gameplay, tier lists, dinos, and anti-laggers wins.
Clel, the spokesperson for experimenting, laggers, and not answering questions loses.
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Post by cetellic on Sept 25, 2008 10:46:40 GMT -5
You've kept it in play I see, thanks for the win.
I've put Mighty on my team for experimentation reasons, got brilliant results, I bet I could win 10 out of 10 CTFs with him on my team. So your claim that teams with experimentation are doomed for failure is false. Some competitive teams could be doomed for failure, some experimentation teams can be doomed for failure, but not all. Easy win for Clel.
So Mystic you still hanging in or what?
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