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Post by cetellic on Sept 22, 2008 14:36:36 GMT -5
I just read back and saw how the debate got started... I know why I think I'm so right, it's cause I am ;D. I should've won the debate a long time ago, I knew there was something fishy about all that... So Mystic and Glad, lets leave that thread for what it's meant for, discussing the tier list. Lets let our frustrations out here. Lets take a look at my crowning achievements Lag debate - Won by Clel Captain debate - Won by Clel Player Choosing debate - Won by Clel GC Respect debate - Won by Clel If anyone cares to you can go "WHOA CLEL YOU'RE SO TALENTED", I can't wait to see some of those
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Post by MysticX2X on Sept 22, 2008 15:12:08 GMT -5
Clel still stirring up for attention eh?
1. Your lag argument was stupid. Laggers recoil differently, hits not registered as easily. I'm sure i would give up a couple hearts if i could get to the flag and out easily.
2. We prefer someone who plays the server and this event frequently to be captain. By that meaning some people with a considerable amount of experience.
3. Any CTF regular knows who is good or not. You think we go solely off the tier list which was created upon how people were picked.
4. Cant remember too much on the GC Respect debate except Gladius claiming some GC control should be set. Then you went rambling on about how to let the event flow and blah blah. You seem like the type of GC whose events are a massacre with flaming and spamming by shimmy. The times a GC should put some control in the event if there is either mass harassment/abusing/cheating/lagging.
Face it, you won nothing. You just like to think so high and mighty of yourself. But considering fighting runs in your hood, it isn't surprising you're arguing about stupid poo that's wrong.
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Post by cetellic on Sept 22, 2008 15:32:14 GMT -5
RANDOM GUY:NO MYSTIC!!! IT'S A TRAP!!!!!
Clel:It's too late... he can always delete his post though... I'll give him a chance since I'm considerate.
RANDOM GUY:MYSTIC DO IT!!! DELETE THE POST!!! IT'S THE ONLY WAY!!!!
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Post by cetellic on Sept 22, 2008 15:48:43 GMT -5
Clel:On second thought squash that!
RANDOM GUY:NO CLEL DON'T!!!
1.I've already refuted that. Lets take a look at one of my previous responses to this - "Lagging is different, as it's just the information from the server delayed, this has advantages (which can be abused by the lagger) and disadvantages (which can be abused by the other players). Tapping cannot be stopped, lagging can, you have your chance, the skippy player runs in, you see him coming, and have a chance to do something about it. I've argued this before, kicking someone who lags is just kicking someone because a majority of players cannot deal with lag, thus denying players who'd be willing to find a way to work the advantages against lag the chance so lag remains supreme."
2. Oh wait lets see that one's pwnt too - "While hosting every player should be treated equally, it's what you signed up for when you became GC, so you cannot say "well you can't be captain cause you're new", that's like bias at it's core?"
3. OOOO nows the time to spring one of Gladius' responses - "90% sure the tier lists were just saying who's ON AVERAGE better than who, and subsequently who you should pick first."
4. You don't even know what it was over so I can safely say I won, I'm so proud of myself =*(
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Post by gladius on Sept 22, 2008 16:14:59 GMT -5
First off, it's impossible for you to win a lag debate. Only laggers win a lag bebate. Unless all the GCs agree on a similar policy about laggers, ppl will lag as long as they know they can get away with it occasionally. I'll give two examples that make sense. First, isn't having a lag advantage like having a steroid advantage in sports? Only a few people have it, and it clearly gives them an edge. You can "adjust your strategy" all you want for a Barry Bonds or Roger Clements, but the fact of the matter is they still will kick your ass most of the time. Second, isn't fighting a lagger like fighting a ghost pokemon? The only reason I bring this up is because clel used pokemon as an (poor) example of "experimenting". Many moves won't hurt the ghost pokemon, so clearly they have an edge. Plus their attacks are wicked effective, such as sleep + dream eater combo (to parallel laggers lag based atk).
Clel just to prove a point I'll look back at last night. Cat volunteered to be captain against an experienced captain. I regrettably moved him up there even though we had much better people out there. But some people commented on having someone else there, so out of the 10 people that voted, 7 of them voted for a new captain over cat. If you don't have the backing of the people clel, where does your support lie? You may preach freedom but I preach equality. You cannot have perfect freedom otherwise equality is ****ed up. If you feel anyone and everyone has a right to be a captain then so be it, but they usually **** up a game from the start. The people have my back on this one clel.
Clel if you want to pick cat instead of kill, shimmy, or laura (all examples no one's being singled out), then go for it. You have every right to. But you don't have the right to **** over a ctf game by deciding to have fun "experimenting". When you pick a weaker player instead of a better play, you severaly cripple the chances of an even game.
GC respect? GC respect? No one respected Kai as a gc b/c he idled all day and never hosted. When he did host, he hosted lame events like drunken stupor (good for low playercount, not good for 20 ppl). When we list the GCs out clel, you're one of the last ones on there. Sometimes its possible to even forget you're a GC cause you host so infrequently. You do host some good events, but you don't host enough of them. Now if you want to be a politician and mudsling on my character, then go for it. I'm not a fan of gunning after the person themselves when it's the issues themselves that are more important. Part of the reason I can't stand politics but w/e. I don't have motives against certain people to prevent them from being captain. I have motives to keep bad players from being captain or early picks so they don't **** up the game I'm taking time out of my day to host.
And clel, if you were going for the star wars episode 6: return of the jedi "it's a trap!" moment, you failed miserably.
As it stands, it should actually go something like this:
"Admiral, we have imperial ships in sector ###" (forgot the exact numbers but there's a 3 in there somewhere) - someone on bridge
"It's a trap!"- Admiral Akbar (aka pimp)
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Post by MysticX2X on Sept 22, 2008 20:38:25 GMT -5
Clel:On second thought squash that! RANDOM GUY:NO CLEL DON'T!!! 1.I've already refuted that. Lets take a look at one of my previous responses to this - "Lagging is different, as it's just the information from the server delayed, this has advantages (which can be abused by the lagger) and disadvantages (which can be abused by the other players). Tapping cannot be stopped, lagging can, you have your chance, the skippy player runs in, you see him coming, and have a chance to do something about it. I've argued this before, kicking someone who lags is just kicking someone because a majority of players cannot deal with lag, thus denying players who'd be willing to find a way to work the advantages against lag the chance so lag remains supreme." 2. Oh wait lets see that one's pwnt too - "While hosting every player should be treated equally, it's what you signed up for when you became GC, so you cannot say "well you can't be captain cause you're new", that's like bias at it's core?" 3. OOOO nows the time to spring one of Gladius' responses - "90% sure the tier lists were just saying who's ON AVERAGE better than who, and subsequently who you should pick first." 4. You don't even know what it was over so I can safely say I won, I'm so proud of myself =*( 1. I already refuted that point by saying that most players wouldnt mind giving up a couple hearts to get the flag in and out easy. Kicking a lagger can be fair on some occasions depending on the amount of lag they have. You can't comprehend any of my hosts to know that i DO REALIZE that laggers have their advantages and disadvantages. Their advantages can be even greater though. You're telling me Thor could score just as easy in CTF Sumo since he stopped lagging? (Yes I'm aware he can still score a number of goals, but not as much as his lag goals in CTF Sumo) 2.It's more of a suggestion for new people not to captain. Sometimes i do let them captain but once they make pooty picks, i have to redo the team picking because the odds will fall in one teams hands. As a result, we have to coerce the unregulars of actually captaining though not in a forceful way. There are SEVERAL events the noobs can be treated equally in, but CTF just can't be on in my eyes. There is too much stategy and skill involved in that event. And if we did let noobs captain, the people will get tired once they see theyre being dominated which gives the GC even more grief to find replacements. I'm not saying that us GC's not allowing noobs to captain is right, but it certainly does make a better outcome of a match, which everyone likes to see. 3. And i agree with Gladius. The tier list was created as a mockup of how we usually pick people in CTF based on AVERAGE PERFORMANCE. You yourself wouldn't even pick a noob who had a spectacular game 10 months ago over Mighty, Thor, Deophite, Glad, me, etc..... 4. Keep being an arrogant creep. No one is lauding you at all. You're just being a foolish idiot.
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Post by cetellic on Sept 23, 2008 3:56:46 GMT -5
Gladius and Mystic, or should I just say Gladius cause Mystic admit you're just a echo. But debating is not that hard, and you two have proven not to debate by standards of which weed out the greater good.
You feel the need to denounce my points in a near completely mis-understood debate, thus proving your ignorance on the subject.
I really dont like to debate on topics as one sided as this one. You can argue all you like, but if your so mis-guided as to say "only laggers can win lag debates", there's no point.
Here's ways you can prove spike laggers should be kicked at the same rate of tappers.
1.Have a spike lagger alone go up against a all 8 HP 4 man defense on the stairs, should he score a single point it'd prove spike laggers can move through people. A spike lagger honestly wouldn't be able to handle a 3 defense or even 2 man defense if each player had 8 hearts and defended correctly.
2.Have a spike lagger spar someone with a very accurate connection like Mighty, as we all know spike laggers have very inaccurate hitboxes so they can't hit people as easily but can be hit easier due to the server believing their in multiple places at once. Mighty would rape them. What does all this mean? Spike laggers are worse at hunting, guarding, defending, and flag running but have better offensive capabilites.
3.Prove to me that only spike laggers have that kind of recoil, do you guys even know how the recoil system works? Everyone can recoil like that, in fact I do it in hardcore spars where I let myself get hit by a bomb explosion and force my recoil to where ever my opponent is. Moving through recoil surprises people cause it's quicker + I get invincibility frames, so it's generally a free hit for me, explain why this tactic should be impossible for me to use.
Here's ways you can win the Captain + Player Choice debate.
4.Find me one event that lets you be biased towards players, the fact that you threw up a vote because Cat was captain was biased. Power of the people does not make bad things good. It simply doesn't work like that and shouldn't be in the GC's nature for any reason.
5.Explain how treating everyone equally (letting the players play) is not equal. Everyone who sends in their account is presented with the same options from beginning to end, so your claim of innocent player being picked by bad captain is false, cause the innocent player could have became captain to prevent from being on bad captain's horrid team.
6.Prove that I messed up those CTFs by picking Night and Deo, I picked those two alone based on experimentation. So just explain why I can't pick Deo and Night for my first two picks anymore and why I can't be captain at all since we got flawed in small, which totally is against competitive regulation.
Ways to win the respect debate.
Well first get on topic, the respect debate was about GC's respecting players, and was targetted at your disrespect towards noob/pathetic players. If you don't even understand what the debate is about, why do you feel qualified to type meaningless paragraphs about it?
Second if you don't want to hear it from me just take your actions up towards higher powers such as Storm, Bell, Night, and have them corruptly say you're allowed to do such, there's nothing I can do against that. In fact just have Night rule in your favor for each of these, I'm sure that'll pwn me asap.
Not too big into star wars actually, but people kept going IT'S A TRAP!!! Guess that's why but enough childish side arguments, I've laid out these points of which if you prove in your favor would be a wonderful way to take each debate with ease. I doubt neither you nor Mystic can do such which is why I believe I got this debate won and feel the need to goof off cause apparently you guys aren't here to debate. Prove me wrong.
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Post by Gemini on Sept 23, 2008 4:03:17 GMT -5
wow
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Post by gladius on Sept 23, 2008 8:24:56 GMT -5
Gladius and Mystic, or should I just say Gladius cause Mystic admit you're just a echo. But debating is not that hard, and you two have proven not to debate by standards of which weed out the greater good. You feel the need to denounce my points in a near completely mis-understood debate, thus proving your ignorance on the subject. I really dont like to debate on topics as one sided as this one. You can argue all you like, but if your so mis-guided as to say "only laggers can win lag debates", there's no point. Here's ways you can prove spike laggers should be kicked at the same rate of tappers. 1.Have a spike lagger alone go up against a all 8 HP 4 man defense on the stairs, should he score a single point it'd prove spike laggers can move through people. A spike lagger honestly wouldn't be able to handle a 3 defense or even 2 man defense if each player had 8 hearts and defended correctly. 2.Have a spike lagger spar someone with a very accurate connection like Mighty, as we all know spike laggers have very inaccurate hitboxes so they can't hit people as easily but can be hit easier due to the server believing their in multiple places at once. Mighty would rape them. What does all this mean? Spike laggers are worse at hunting, guarding, defending, and flag running but have better offensive capabilites. 3.Prove to me that only spike laggers have that kind of recoil, do you guys even know how the recoil system works? Everyone can recoil like that, in fact I do it in hardcore spars where I let myself get hit by a bomb explosion and force my recoil to where ever my opponent is. Moving through recoil surprises people cause it's quicker + I get invincibility frames, so it's generally a free hit for me, explain why this tactic should be impossible for me to use. Here's ways you can win the Captain + Player Choice debate. 4.Find me one event that lets you be biased towards players, the fact that you threw up a vote because Cat was captain was biased. Power of the people does not make bad things good. It simply doesn't work like that and shouldn't be in the GC's nature for any reason. 5.Explain how treating everyone equally (letting the players play) is not equal. Everyone who sends in their account is presented with the same options from beginning to end, so your claim of innocent player being picked by bad captain is false, cause the innocent player could have became captain to prevent from being on bad captain's horrid team. 6.Prove that I messed up those CTFs by picking Night and Deo, I picked those two alone based on experimentation. So just explain why I can't pick Deo and Night for my first two picks anymore and why I can't be captain at all since we got flawed in small, which totally is against competitive regulation. Ways to win the respect debate. Well first get on topic, the respect debate was about GC's respecting players, and was targetted at your disrespect towards noob/pathetic players. If you don't even understand what the debate is about, why do you feel qualified to type meaningless paragraphs about it? Second if you don't want to hear it from me just take your actions up towards higher powers such as Storm, Bell, Night, and have them corruptly say you're allowed to do such, there's nothing I can do against that. In fact just have Night rule in your favor for each of these, I'm sure that'll pwn me asap. Not too big into star wars actually, but people kept going IT'S A TRAP!!! Guess that's why but enough childish side arguments, I've laid out these points of which if you prove in your favor would be a wonderful way to take each debate with ease. I doubt neither you nor Mystic can do such which is why I believe I got this debate won and feel the need to goof off cause apparently you guys aren't here to debate. Prove me wrong. Clel I've proved you wrong in so many posts so far I'm not sure why you keep trying. 1. No, they shouldn't be able to get a 2 man defense that does it's job. But when they do, something fishy is about. 2. Yet some lag spikers are nearly impossible to hunt b/c their movements are delayed on your screen. 3. Clel how come when I hit someone up into the water (looking at the choke in sumo), most people go up into the water yet some people flash (aka have been hit) and keep going forward in the direction they were moving? Thats what really kills a defense in ctf sumo. You think you hit em out but instead they keep walking right past you. 4. Clel if anything, i'm biased towards having a good game of ctf. I threw up the poll so the people could speak their force. Even night was there (don't think he voted) but he never said anything about it. Here's one event a GC can be biased towards players: Cats and Dogs. I usually go for anyone trying to sneak around the wall, but deep down there's a few people we all don't really want to win so we make sure they get eliminated. 5. Everyone does come in with the same options: 1) don't lag 2) don't **** over my ctf by picking bad teams or not playing hard (aka standing there) 6. Never said you couldn't pick deo and night. Deo is a high tier (close to top tier) player, and night is somewhere between middle and high tier. It's hard to judge him yet since his connection is finally decent and he's just beginning to play again. Now if you picked night 2nd instead of a sure-fire high tier player, an eyebrow might be raised. But night is still a good player and it's not like you picked pyro or someone similar 2nd. Clel I never said flaws don't happen when the tier list is used as a guide. I've said several times that timing, luck, teamwork, and lag can all vastly kill a game for one team. Clel there's a difference between a 6-0 flaw game between two vastly different teams and a 6-0 game between two fairly even teams where one team just got no lucky breaks. Not sure why you continue to harp on the "omg we got flawed ez the tierlist is bullpoo" factor when I never once said the tier list prevents this. It just maximizes, in theory, the chances of two evenly skilled teams. @ GC respect. I have no problem with noobs/pathetic players. I just don't want them picking b/c they usually **** up my events and I don't want them picked early b/c again they can usually **** up events that way. If anything clel, I try to help noobs. When I'm on GC tag hosting, I get pms from trials/noobs to help them on quests. I usually take the time to go help em through the part they're having trouble with. Just b/c I don't want them to cap doesn't mean I hate all noobs/shiit players and go crusading against them clel. Well clel if you're going to reference something, make sure you do it right next time.
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Post by cetellic on Sept 23, 2008 9:22:12 GMT -5
1.You did not present to me a spike lagger running through a 4 man D. Gaps in 2 man defense can be taken an advantage of if you spike lag or not, which is why I'm fairly confident against 2 man defenses regardless of who it is. If you want to test me on this I'll be glad to demonstrate it. 2.I've noticed they're easier as they can't juke as good. This looks like a he said she said kind of thing. Lets ask Oni to spike lag for us and Mighty to hunt him, we'll get some proof behind this. 3.Any player can be subject to that. It was happening in the sumo where I got technically flawed, who was spike lagging on your team? You didn't even explain how I could use that bomb launching technique while recoils such as that are impossible unless you're a spike lagger. 4.Cats and Dogs is a GC participation event, and still in your example you do not pick out a player merely for sending their account in and hunt them down. Your other bit where "people you don't want to win you make sure their eliminated", I don't (as other GCs shouldn't) use a GC Event - a public time for entertainment - to get back at someone, and that's if I'm childish enough to hold such a grudge in the first place. 5.Doesn't explain how letting the players play is not equal. The players can prevent bad captain from being captain in the first place by being captain themselves. If they don't care to there's consequences which they may or may not care about. 6.I said zero, ZIP about a tier list. I didn't use the tier list as a guide, I picked Deo and Night for experimentation reasons and got bad results. You must prove to me that I messed up those CTFs competitive wise by "having fun experimenting", if you aren't interested in doing so then you forfeit this segment of the debate. I don't think luck had anything to do with it, I felt we were clearly outmatched and we'd still get our tails handed to us again. Respect part - you have negative actions against Cat, either you get some high powered unbiased opinions to say "oh ya that was just and fair of ya" else admit wrong and leave this part as is. And I'll make sure this is the last time I say "IT'S A TRAP" unless it's accompanied by the full reference which you presented.
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Post by gladius on Sept 23, 2008 11:04:02 GMT -5
Again clel none of your points hold any merit.
1) How do you want me to present it? If they lag through a 4 man D then obviously that is ****ed up. A 2 man D can be beaten by anyone if they attack right/ defense plays it wrong. But when the laggers don't get recoiled backwards b/c of their lag and they stay on the stairs, or get propelled FORWARDS through a person when the sword hits them backwards, it is clearly ****ed up.
2) Well maybe clel you have anti-lag powers or something. Whenever I'm trying to hunt these laggers down I seem to miss many times where I believe I hit them. Don't use mighty as an example because A) usually you have 2 ppl hunting flag and B) mighty is top tier player and doesn't represent the average ctf player trying to hunt down a lagger. Can mighty hunt down most flag runners? Probably. Can cat or pyro? Not really. The average person will have mixed success because their movements are sketchy.
3) Well last time I checked most ctfs don't involve bomb usage. When someone is hit they recoil away from the sword hit, and occasionally it propels a normal person through a gap in the defense. When you hit a lagger, they seemingly recoil in the direction they want to in many cases and sometimes seemingly through people.
4) I never said I was holding grudges. I simply stated that I don't want certain people to win. The fact is in ctf i don't mind noobs/pathetic players sending in (have to summon them anyways unless we have even ammount), I just don't want them being captain. Not sure why you don't get that.
5) Players hardly ever volunteer for captain clel. I've cancelled a couple ctfs because i couldn't get two captains. And like I said earlier, when I did put cat as captain, the people squawked and I held a vote. Overwhelmingly they said cat should not be captain. So obviously they do care clel, since they didn't want a noob captain that would probably **** up the game.
6) Clel i was merely saying that a Deo + Night picking, assuming they were your first two, according to the tier list wouldn't be "experimenting", they would fairly decent picks. Now if you picked night over two top/high tier players, then the game would probably be ****ed to some extent.
Didn't you just say that you picked them for experimentation reasons and had bad results? Then you ask me to prove you messed up the competitiveness of the CTFs? I think you proved my case with your statement.
Not negative actions against cat. Negative actions against cat's actions which would, unknowingly by the innocent cat, **** over the game. It's good to see he was eager to be captain, but as the people voted, it wasn't going to lead to good results and thus a change was made. There isn't much of a higher opinion than that of the people playing clel.
It better be the last time you post too, cause right now clel, you're getting schooled in the art of facts.
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Post by MysticX2X on Sept 23, 2008 12:30:35 GMT -5
Hardly being an echo. Sort of sounds like you as you keep repeating the same points as if we haven't already proved it wrong.
Luckily for you, I will make my rebuttal when i get home.
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Post by cetellic on Sept 23, 2008 14:37:35 GMT -5
Just to make it interesting it's going to be a FABULOUS GAMESHOW!!! I'm your may-be-homosexual host, CLEL!!!! Now I have six questions for you...
1.You can present it by doing one of the following, now which one sounds most reasonable? A) Set it up by gathering four defenders and Oni to test it out? B) Sit here for more she said he said garbage? C) Consult with Mystic about who I'm raping worse?
Personally the raping one is best =)
2.Answer this question which normally pops up on IQ tests! Clel = Fair, Clel < Tapping, Tapping > Fair Clel = Fair, Clel > Lag. Is lag greater or less then fair?
3.How would swords, and BIG... JUICY... bombs (of course) deal different recoil if both hit the player with the same script command?
4.Darling, just name me one event that the GC can be biased in =)
5.How is an event where every player has equal rights not equal.
6.And here's the final one! Yes I experimented, yes I got bad results, now Gladius think with all your might! All you have to do is prove why it was experimenting that lead to those bad results, proving it has no place whatsoever in competitive play, and you my friend will win $9,000,000,000 DOLLARS!!! No pressure now =)
CROWD:*CHEERS* GLADIUS WE LOVE YOU!!! PWN CLEL BY PRESENTING THE FACTS!!!! THEN GIVE US AUTOGRAPHS CAUSE YOU'RE THE CHAMP!!!!
Negative actions against Cat's actions, which in turn is negative actions against, could it be? CAT?!?!?! There isn't much of a higher opinion then people playing huh? AGREED!!! WE'RE GUNNA HAVE FUN WITH THAT ONE!!!
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Post by gladius on Sept 23, 2008 16:23:19 GMT -5
Well thanks for inviting me mr Clel. Glad to be here. Pun intended.
To answer your first question, since oni will likely not lag as bad when several people are specifically watching him I'll go with option b, she said glad said garbage.
The second question is a trick question. Clel = Lame, Lag > lame, Lag = cheating. Cheating can be defined as the following: v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
Since lagging is clearly cheating, which is an unfair advantage, is clearly not fair and should not be allowed.
The third question is quite obvious. The sword doesn't reach as far as the bomb's explosion image (except for thor's sword), and the sword only goes in one direction at once. The bomb explodes in 4 directions. So what happens when you stand in the middle of the bomb? You explode towards heaven, duh. The fact remains is that when you get hit you recoil, but unlike most people who recoil towards/into opponents, laggers seemingly lag through people. For example, rufus was trying to get out of our base with flag the other day in ctf large. I stepped in front of him and swung my sword. Instead of going backwards in the direction I hit him in, he walked through me without getting hit, then swung his sword while over my character and killed me (was on 1 hp), later going in for the score. Now I know how the recoil works, and if i did hit rufus he sure as hell can't go through me. If i didn't hit him, I'd sure as hell like to know why because i directly hit him.
The fourth question was just answered last post: Cats and Dogs. When the people are coming across, the GC has a choice of whom to attack. Usually you gun for the first person out, but the majority of the people come out in a big block and spread out. At that point, it's like the first pass at a buffet table. So many juicy choices...you just want to save some for later, so you gun for the ones you want to go through first.
The fifth question has already been explained numerous times. Every player has equal rights: volunteer for captain if you won't **** up the game (numerous times we had to remove a captain and redo teams because they picked poo teams and not just referring to noobs here) and to enjoy a hopefully good game of ctf.
The sixth question is easy but is going to take some explanation. Take a look at this diagram of a fake game of ctf that was picked without using the tier list: (clel picks first, standard picking mode)
Captain Clel vs Captain Mystic ----------------------------------------- Deophite < Thor Night < Mighty Jade < Luda Shimmy > Cat
Clel's decision to experiment may end up costing the team. Clel is better than mystic, but the only other pick-2-pick matchup that team clel wins is shimmy vs cat. The decision to take night over mighty or luda, then taking jade over luda or shimmy, has severely thrown the balance of the game into question, with team mystic looking like a sure winner. Are they going to win all the time? No. Are they going to win around 70% of the matchups between these two teams? Probably. Tis debatable.
Now lets look at the same captains picking with the tier list in mind with standard picking:
Team Clel vs Team Mystic ----------------------------------------- Thor = Mighty Deophite > Luda Night = Shimmy Cat = Jade
On paper, the game is much more even if the tier list is followed. Deo has the edge over luda on a pick-2-pick matchup, but otherwise it's fairly even across the board. Clel has the edge of mystic head to head, as does his team. But this is when standard picking is used and not snake (not up for discussion at this time).
Clel, honestly, look at the team you "experimented" with. I'm not sure what gametype it was, nor the rest of your team nor the opponent you were playing. But taking lag, luck, timing, and teamwork into account, honestly how many games out of 10 can you guys win?
If the answer is 4 or less, then clearly "experimental" teams don't give their teams an even chance to win. Now, with the tier list in mind, if these teams were picked, I'd bet that both teams could probably split the series 5 each. Odds are one of em would win more than the other due to lag, timing, teamwork, and luck, but the fact remains the same: teams picked with the tier list in mind have a higher probability of being evenly matched, creating competitive and fun games for all. Games not picked with it have a higher probability of one team being better, thus resulting in games that won't be as competitive or as fun for all the people. Sure, winning 6-0 in 6 minutes is a good LoL, but it's more of a shallow victory that makes you more bored than before the match. And losing 6-0 makes you feel like you just wasted your time. Clel I guarantee a team that loses a ctf game would rather lose 6-5 than 6-0.
Actions against cat's negative actions are necessary to prevent unequal teams and unfair games. The majority of the people have an important opinion indeed. The people want fair teams (or at least stacked in their favor slightly so they can win) so they can have fun.
Thanks again for inviting me to your gameshow clel. I hope the viewers got smarter out there as to why a tier list can be effective and why you shouldn't get mad, but instead you should get glad.
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Post by MysticX2X on Sept 23, 2008 21:06:30 GMT -5
Aside from this, new CTF Sumo map bout to be released.
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