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Post by cetellic on Dec 16, 2008 22:39:44 GMT -5
Sumo: I'd assume that's cause many defenders have caught up with the lag game and can do alot better against it then before. As for Thor he has 50ms, your claim of him lagging is null because his reach is caused by the lag of others, not himself.
Def: Laggers already give defenders problems, it's just when you finally nail them and then bam they get the good recoil and score it gets annoying. And people take this annoyance and exaggerate it. If I forward recoil and score not much of a biggy, but if Death rushes through and gets it, that's a hack right?
Exp: True but it takes more skill when you have bad teammates, the more skill you have to output the more practice you're getting.
Close: It's not merely losing that gives the benefits, but being challenged. Fighting a close game is not as challenging as fighting a uneven one. More challenge the more problems you can see in your style first hand and watch how your enemy takes an advantage of them. In a close game it was probably one fatal mistake that costed you, but in an uneven one it could be five. Knowing all five allows you to work on all five.
Gotenks is right however, having the spike lag is not all bells and whistles, they get hit too easy when you know how to deal with em.
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Post by gladius on Dec 17, 2008 11:05:10 GMT -5
Sumo: I'd like to believe that clel, but I see a lot of players simply fail to stop a lagger at all. I'm not perfect in defense, and certainly not against laggers, but sometimes the epic fail of some of these players is just *sigh*. And the thor reach thing...I do believe that has something to do with the server being moved to the europe since he never had it before. It has cost me a few goals to be sure...
Def: The odds of you getting a recoil are, for example, 1/6. Laggers seem to have a higher odd of a foward recoil happening. People get annoyed when laggers seem to get forward recoils constantly, since it makes their efforts on defense seem useless. If you happen to get a recoil, then oh well. Boo, but oh well.
Exp: Mmmm. Perhaps it is unwise of us to try and say which situation players get better in: close games or bad teamates. Everyone is differrent, and thus they would probably get better (hopefully) in different ways. The only real difference between the two situations is that both sides have the same general chance to win when both teams are even (hence a close game hopefully, though this is obviously not always the case). All I know is that I got better from being 11 down in the 4th quarter to Tennesse in NCAA Football 09 last night and coming back to win with a score with 30 seconds left (both teams overall 90). Perhaps other people are different.
Close: Obviously playing on a lesser team is a major challenge, but in a different kind of way than a close game. On a lesser team, the challenge is to step up your game enough to cover for the lesser players and make up for their mistakes. In a close game, the challenge is step up your game to make a difference in the clutch. Big time players make big time plays in big time situations in big time games. As for the "it could be five" mistakes thing: really there isn't much you can do when getting beaten badly. Theres no real thing to focus on since you have to stretch your game and try to do everything for your team. You might be getting better, but you have to divide it by 5 (from your example) since each aspect of your game would appear to need work. With a close game, you can find out where the major flaw in your game is (that possibly cost you the game) and fix it. I'd perfer to level up one of my attributes at a time rather than try and divide my experience points between all of them.
For as many times as they "get hit too easy" it seems that they don't get hit when it appears like they should have been. Or maybe thats just me. Idk. Maybe glad epicly fails at hunting laggers.
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Post by cetellic on Dec 17, 2008 14:54:09 GMT -5
Sumo: I see alot of players doing the opposite, and actually hanging in there. Zedo and Rob could do well against Thor's offense on sumo and they weren't heavy class defenders. So if Gotenks+Death aren't as good as Thor then I'd assume average joes can do well against them, besides they don't seem all that dominant if you ask me.
Def: It's the same if you ask me, there's no proof that it varies. Forced recoil can be done and it knocks you in whichever direction you choose 10/10 times. It's all about how your opponent is defending against you.
Exp: "perhaps it is unwise of us to try and say which situation players get better in"... I will say there is one best way of improving. I don't know the exact best yet, but I do know what's the greatest of all the ways I currently know of. For most people not every single way will work for them, but generally those who can work with the better ways of improving end up becoming the best, which is why not everyone can become extremely good - some don't care enough, some care too much.
Close: If you dislike losing you're going to get pwned. However pro players generally know a single loss, regardless of how bad, is not the end of the world and will use the situation positively. Overly cocky people who think they can never lose and use this tactic (me for example) do so they can see any possible quirks and correct them (since we can't see flaws within ourself while flawing people, we need a reality check). If you care too much to take a loss all of this will be useless, and you should stick to what you're used to, however for those who don't care to lose this is simply the quickest way to improve should they be willing to go through the hard work and have the ambition to be exceptionally good.
I think it's just you didn't spar much.
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Post by gladius on Dec 17, 2008 16:03:58 GMT -5
Sumo: Two down. Twenty to go. Jokes aside, no they aren't dominant like thor was when he was massively lagging. But they are still a hindrance to many defenses with the unique challenge they present.
Def: Really? I don't seem to benefit from this forced recoil that much. If there's a technique to using it then you should really share clel. Tis the season. Seriously though, as a person defending more often than not, I see laggers FR more than nonlaggers. Maybe the nonlaggers FR but go into the water unlike the laggers. Idk.
Exp: Simply put: some people are naturally great. Some people can make themselves great. And some people...well no matter what they do, they won't even be good, much less great.
Close: People that care about losing leave games, which is not cool. People who want to get better never leave. People who just play to have fun don't play to the best of their ability since they don't have the extra drive. People who have the desire to win will be the best. The desire to win comes into play more in close games, I believe, which is why I desire to play them.
I really don't.
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Post by Gotenks on Dec 17, 2008 16:07:27 GMT -5
You make it sound so simple. it is you guys just like to argue..... i think i beat glad once out of 6 spars? really ive never gotten a "foward recoil" its just that i was so far ahead when they hit me that it looked like i got hit forward i feel as if im reading in a circle, oh wait i am
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Post by MysticX2X on Dec 17, 2008 16:27:38 GMT -5
wow shut the hell up gotenks.
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Post by gladius on Dec 17, 2008 16:29:26 GMT -5
Pretty much.
Yeah when we sparred at exos the other day, I think you got me the first round but the next 5 or so...ouch. I changed my style up and it worked well against you. Didn't work as well against rufus but he's good.
Well on our screen it looks like you're in a position to be hit, but on your screen you're a few tiles ahead. Thus when we hit you, you recoil foward since you are actually moving forward already on your screen. Thus to us, we're all like "wtf mate?" when on your screen everything appears normal since, to you, we hit you on the tailend. Of course this is all my theory since I've never seen a laggers screen, nor do I really know the exact details of the process. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, which is likely.
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Post by Gotenks on Dec 17, 2008 16:51:49 GMT -5
wow shut the hell up gotenks. was someone talking to you? no. so stfu and go back to sucking cock to get what you want @glad thats what i was saying
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Post by Gotenks on Dec 17, 2008 17:12:48 GMT -5
Mystic how retarded are you? why would you ask rufus for a rematch when you know he would have said no when me and oni couldnt see him move how is this fair? oh wait i forgot its glads and clels job to make it a fair match your job is to make it the most biased/unfair match for me/laura
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Post by MysticX2X on Dec 17, 2008 17:27:44 GMT -5
You both couldn't see each other. Fair game. I told you to change your UDP settings and you didn't.
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Post by Gotenks on Dec 17, 2008 18:06:14 GMT -5
lol? my udp settings havent changed i could see him just fine earlier, how is it fair game when you cant see eachother at all? idiot
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Post by Gotenks on Dec 17, 2008 18:26:42 GMT -5
@ glad/clel why are you arguing in a thread that has a pic of mystic ****ing george bush up the ass?
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Post by gladius on Dec 17, 2008 19:10:26 GMT -5
I think this evolved/devolved into more of a discussion rather than an argument, with both sides bouncing intelligent thoughts off the other. Maybe the rest of you should try it sometime?
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Post by laura on Dec 17, 2008 19:12:16 GMT -5
sometime* ?
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Post by gladius on Dec 17, 2008 19:14:48 GMT -5
Good eye.
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