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Clel
Jan 26, 2009 12:08:53 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 26, 2009 12:08:53 GMT -5
Nothing you'll take the time to read.
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Clel
Jan 26, 2009 18:03:40 GMT -5
Post by cetellic on Jan 26, 2009 18:03:40 GMT -5
The material people throw at me is garbage. Pretty sad that you guys claim to be debating me but all you're really doing is listing bull, then throwing random insults at me. Here you fail to critically think - wouldn't you suspect that to me the stuff you're throwing about is bs aswell? I mean honestly I toy around with you cause you do so much stupid junk to the point where I don't think you're seriously debating, or arguing, or whatever. So you calling the stuff of others garbage... when you get trapped and backed into corners so much you usually need Mystic to get you out? And when we're debating 1v1 you desperately try to stray. I let you do that junk too, cause I wouldn't get a challenge otherwise, besides I already know I'll pwn you again where ever you stray to and I usually do force you to stray again. As far as insults go, I tried to have a civil conversation, you kept insulting me. So to make fun of how seriously you take the debates I started using "CLEL WINS!!!" and "LOLOLOLOL RAPED!!!!". I'm pretty sure those are less insulting then a mass saying "I wonder why Clel hasn't join the event, oh wait maybe he likes life in his cell", but I don't even take offense - you need to insult me cause you have hard feelings about our debates. Basically you know in your heart I win and you hate that to the point where you've used your position as GC as a gateway to insulting me. Oh and you've never proven me wrong, just to clear that up clel. Maybe if you stopped tinkering in your science lab with your precious npcs you'd come outside and see the light. I'd throw you into a stick situation, Mystic would pop in to change the subject, I'd respond to Mystic, you'd ignore the post where I had you locked down and respond to me and Mystic's side squabble... yes Gladius you've been proven wrong ALOT as you stray ALOT, to stray leaves a topic undecided, since you are the one who initiates the stray, you forfeit that topic because you showed no interest in proving yourself right. Pretty much, you wouldn't argue to the point where I could prove you wrong. You'd ignore stuff, ect. ect. cause the questions got too tough to answer and stuff like that.
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kill
New Member
Posts: 4
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Clel
Jan 26, 2009 21:13:30 GMT -5
Post by kill on Jan 26, 2009 21:13:30 GMT -5
What are you, a psychology major? Not really, but I was just going to PM back those that PM'ed me; "Discover masturbation and it'll sort out all of your worries." Though irl, my approach would totally differ, no no honestly.
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Clel
Jan 26, 2009 22:18:59 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 26, 2009 22:18:59 GMT -5
Garbage Well naturally both sides believe they are correct and the other side is spitting out garbage. We are only human, afterall. Apparently you have a very loose definition of "stray". I noted earlier that I tend to elaborate a lot during my posts, thus making them seem so long. I do tend to bring in other examples and branch out a bit in my thoughts. If this is your definition of "straying" then so be it. Many times the debaters here, myself included, just recycle their thoughts because nothing new is being presented; which is why I like to "stray" a bit and bring more info or examples in. As for the insulting thing: personally I cannot stand being wrong about anything and I absolutely hate asking for help irl. I'm just a prideful son of a gun. Seeing that I always believe I'm right, I do not enjoy it when people try to argue otherwise. A post or two is ok but when it turns into a 40 page spin off then the insults will star to fly. As for the whole mass thing: very few people are not targeted by jokes in my masses. I assume I was just making fun of the fact that you don't seem to join events when you log on, probably because I could have used a few more people in my event. Who knows. Also, mystic has never 'gotten me out' of any corners. He simply reads our posts, decides to repeat something you said and act like he's putting down the big bad dinosaur.
The wrong road Do realize that when we get into these debates, posts can fly pretty quickly. A lot of these posts look very similar, so they can get lost easily. If I come back and see the most recent post as mystic's, I'm going to address that first. Sometimes your posts get lost in the scuffle. Sometimes your posts just repeat themselves so much I don't bother to answer them again. Sometimes I just ignore your posts if they include all the "LOLOLOL RAPED" crap. But let's be honest here. You could never prove me wrong. You hid behind your rulebook on the statue issue when you yourself acknowledged signs and masses are better than signs alone. You kept trying to insist that your "experimentation" was completely fair even though one team would end up being stacked. Please. I forfeit nothing because I'm correct. If you're so good at fighting a losing battle by cornering the other side, might I suggest you looking into being a lawyer? I'm sure your skills would be of more use in a court room than a graal forum. Probably would make you more money too. Oh crud, strayed again. Meh, I'm sure you can handle it.
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 4:03:35 GMT -5
Post by cetellic on Jan 27, 2009 4:03:35 GMT -5
I read a bit of your post and after like 5 straight out lies I didn't read the rest...
One thing I find funny is that you speak about what you don't know, as if you know. For example experimentation, you out-right told me what it would and would not do despite you knowing little about it. Apparently you don't know what straying during debates is, yet you're trying to tell me I have a very loose interpretation of it... surely the failure is obvious here, but you doom yourself like this alot and it just doesn't make sense... I really want a challenge, you really want to be a challenge, but things like this just keeps you as joke material.
Anyway you've seem to have admitted you're a man of pride which sucks cause apparently you want to be of use, but your limitation will keep you from getting anywhere... I'll see ya around, oh and by the way my browser's fully functioning now, so I can make a thread called "GLADIUS PROVEN WRONG" full of all the quotes and histories of you well... being proven wrong, if you're that much in doubt that you have been. Could also make a thread called "MYSTIC SAVES GLADIUS AGAIN!!!" just for kicks.
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 8:52:42 GMT -5
Post by laura on Jan 27, 2009 8:52:42 GMT -5
Garbage may refer to:
* Waste, an unwanted or undesired material or substance
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 8:55:54 GMT -5
Post by cetellic on Jan 27, 2009 8:55:54 GMT -5
in fact, I won't even bother hurting your feelings by making the threads. Ain't nothing good going to come out of it anyway, and how easily you fall into the traps makes me not appreciate the hard work I put into setting em... I'll definitely call this one a night.
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 9:58:46 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 27, 2009 9:58:46 GMT -5
Don't let the bed bugs get you clel.
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 10:31:00 GMT -5
Post by MysticX2X on Jan 27, 2009 10:31:00 GMT -5
*Sigh* Well my internet bill is unpaid for so i found some free time at school to type up a 5-10 minute response My, how misguided you are sir. Well, let's get started. Spar Arena DebateWell if you remember from algebra, the 30x is not a mistake. It means every time you walk to supernicks, you walk 30 tiles (not actual). Thus if you walked there 4 times, you would have walked 120 tiles. Looking back I vastly under judged the distance tile-wise between lvl 14 and exos, but the formula still proves a point. The first time you walk to exos, you'd walk 70 tiles (not accurate). However each time after that it wouldn't take any tiles to walk there since you're warping. Thus after four visits you'd only have travled 74 tiles, compared to 120 to supernicks. Now obviously the forumla is innacurate but correct. Early on it would be faster to walk to supernicks, but eventually (and not after many visits) it would be faster just warping to exos. Did you not get the fact supernicks used to be on the warp ring? It can be easily reinstated if supernicks was given a purpose. That's the reason why supernicks warp was taken off: There was no big purpose for it. But nice try at making a debate of that. For a small server, the major spots shouldn't be relatively far from each other. Conversely, for a big server, things could be more widespread not to cause overcrowding. I find it more comforting to a have a spar in close range of the main city. But you yourself aren't making a strong argument on why the main spar should stay widespread from the city. That is your problem: You can't provide counterarguments. Nothing but just flipping my words around. Clel said something like that, right? You still are defending forced questing? Again you can't provide an effective counteragument on why forced questing should be there. No, the graal city quest doesn't get you the full 2 hp. Maybe just an extra hp, so poor argument on getting all the hearts. Then Sardons remains optional for the other heart. @ the sitting here to chat debate: Are you forgetting Classic is nothing more than a social server? If you came to chat with friends, then that is utilizing Classic's purpose, let alone Graal's. In fact, one of Graal's aspects IS to socialize. Some people are lovers, not fighters. No need to force someone to quest on a server where you rarely will utilize the extra 2 hp. I just reiterated how obsessive CTF is coming to be. There are many more events that can be hosted, and are just as great, but do people really join them? No. Every event i host that isn't CTF gets a pathetic amount of people. And all these events can be enjoyable. @ That me and Clel hosting point: I think CTF was the playercount booster, was it not? I think i remember CTF being hosted 3 times that day. Ahahhaha, you're saying that i can't read???!?! Where did i say any events get consideration? In fact, i said CTF Shuns out all the other events. Get the distinction between my NBA point and my CTF point. Will you honestly drop the NBA comparison? Each game gets millions of viewers. Some are more popular than others, but each game gets consideration already. Wow, i already said this in a previous post. Each event doesn't get any players except CTF. Big difference there buddy. Jeez, you're becoming a washing machine. Rinse and repeat. Your world war 2 debate was based on good facts, but that wasn't the argument i was mentioning. That and we both mentioned good points, no debate on that one. I was mentioning Gandhi, which you did acknowledge. And No, I did not brag about how Gandhi is so great and all. I merely mentioned he was one of our most influential people of all time, who influenced many civil rights leaders, and you tried comparing a communist dictator with him. Who fails here most? @ the illiteracy argument: Ummm, india has rougly 1 billion + people. If 60 percent are literate, that's about 600 million people, which is a good amount of people. Keep in mind that with a lot of people, not all can be born into respective homes to provide a good education Clel is becoming more and more right. You don't even consider the posts thrown at you, nor can you provide your own counter points. Get some new material, foolish dino.
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 10:43:59 GMT -5
Post by laura on Jan 27, 2009 10:43:59 GMT -5
who would want to read that.
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 11:15:35 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 27, 2009 11:15:35 GMT -5
Supernicks I'm pretty sure I stated a while back that it was on the ring. A lot of warps got removed from the ring. So why did they chose to remove the supernicks warp instead of the exo warp? Idk. I can guess because exos is far superior and that no one goes to supernicks anymore. Even if you did reinstate the supernicks warp, people will still warp to exos b/c its just better.
City limits I don't have to try make a case for why it should stay outside the city. If we were changing the overworld and shrinking things down, then we might as well just go with one main spar arena in the main town. But that isn't the case. Right now we have two spar arenas, and one is clearly better. There's no need to get rid of, or even move exo's spar. There's no need to try and 'sexify' supernicks to try and get people to go there. I don't need to make a case to keep exos as the main spar because it is the 'status quo' right now. Now, if you can come up with a damn good reason why the dev team should shift their entire focus on getting rid of a perfectly fine sparring complex like exos, and instead revamping supernicks just b/c "its closer", then by all means congratulations. Otherwise, shut up, pull out your warp ring, and spar at exos.
Noble Quest You still don't get it, do you. I never said forced questing is a good thing. I've merely been saying that they might as well do the quests if they intend to stay on the server. When will you get that through your head? And don't give me the "you rarely use the 2 hp" bullpoo. You know that GCs raise everyone's hp to 8 in events. Sparring is only fair when people have the same hp. HP doesn't matter as much with pking obviously. But in every other activity on classic that requires s key bashing, the 2 hp is very necessary to be competitive. Take CTF for example. People that only have 6 hp are a huge liability. They can't defend as long, nor can they attack as long, nor can they flag run or flag hunt as long. Seeing how "no one joins anything but CTF", that extra 2 hp suddenly doesn't seem so "rarely utilized" now does it?
CTF I don't recall it being hosted three times. It certainly wasn't when I was online. As I said earlier, Gem and I both hosted events earlier in the morning that kept the playercount steady. Then clel came in and hosted the pit lms stuff, then afterwards continued with ctf gravity. I logged off there so I can't say whether or not ctf was hosted or not afterwards. But I do know that your claim of "no one joins other events" is complete bullpoo.
NBA Ok, each game gets millions of viewers. Thunder vs Kings gets 2 million. Celtics vs Lakers gets 20 million. You're right, both get millions. Now obviously these numbers are made up but they prove a point. CTF gets 20 votes and fortbuilder gets 2 votes, but that doesn't mean fortbuilder won't be joined. Until you get that through your head, you will fail to see the comparison.
Extra, extra Gandhi was a great person and did great things for india. But his sphere of influence was limited to that country. Sure, other groups used a similar form of non-violent protest afterwards; but lets not fool ourselves: there were always going to be civil rights protests. Maybe the process would have been different, but the end result would have been the same. Now, try taking the veil off your eyes. Stalin was indeed a communist dictator, but don't undercut his influece. The man saw a nation through a new government (after the overthrow of the czars) and turned a nation of peasant farmers into a world superpower. Not bad. Throw in that his country had a massive impact on the fall of the "invincible" nazi germany. Throw in that he set the standards for the communist government for decades after his death. What happened in those decades? Well...russians were first into space. Well...russia's actions influenced the next four decades of american politics and actions. If you're to sit there and try to tell me that india today is better than russia today, then we might as well just end this discussion.
Keep in mind that not all of india's people have water, shelter, or food.
Well the posts you throw at me are pretty lackluster, and I've countered every piece of false logic you've used. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get to criminal justice class.
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 15:10:15 GMT -5
Post by Rufus on Jan 27, 2009 15:10:15 GMT -5
Why are you guys "debating" the most trivial things? Seriously can you not actually bounce ideas off of each other? You all turn into nervous defesive wrecks when someone posts an opposing opinion and end up typing paragraphs that have no resolve. Classic is dead and I thought you lot were trying to suggest some ways of improving the player count and the overall server.
Your debates are pretty pointless. Exodus is not in a central location, spars are more convenient in a central location, but they still get used even if they are not in the central location. Take Ibonic's spar for instance, it was in the middle of absolutely nowhere and quite far from the center of activity. Players from other servers still visited Classic to spar in Ibonic's spar and it revived activity in sparring for a while. Delteria has a great spar in a decent location with a lot of features, yet nobody visits the server? Sparring isn't very high in priority, it's more of a side retainer than a hook. Having a spar in a central location is nicer for the "sparring community" I guess, but we need a community first.
CTF is over hosted and over the last year it did kill the excitement of the other events, there is no debate there. I don't even know why it was so popular or overhosted and I think that it is perhaps the fault of the GC team. We have always had CTF, but we never had such a detrimental demand for it until recent years. The Classic events as a whole could use a freshening up, but I think the GC team could too.
Have the GC team had a serious talk about the state of the server in the private forums? Has the staff team as a whole? You're a part of one build and there's only a split into divisions for organization purposes. You should be working together, not as individual teams doing their own thing, but I feel as though even in teams you're working as individuals doing your own things. In this respect I believe nothing will come of Classic. It can't be ran by one person, and the staff need to work together as a team in order to ensure the server is working.
You're not powerless as players in effecting the current state of the server and being a part of a staff team places you at a major advantage. You're Game Coordinators and you should be putting your heads together rather than competing for who has the biggest one. I mean I have my ideas on how the server can be brought back, but my opinion is expressed far too much. I want to hear what you guys think, and if you want to have players to host then push for Classic to have a few more years yet. As a team perhaps you should think of how you're going to attempt to tackle the problems Classic faces. Graal may be struggling as a whole, but I know that every server still has the ability to individually rise above that and pull in the players, it's just on Classic you don't seem to ever work together.
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 15:22:27 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 27, 2009 15:22:27 GMT -5
Most debates are pointless. Even if one side manages to "win", nothing debated over is ever acted on.
Spar I suppose it doesn't help our servers sparring activity when the belts can't/aren't defended for a week rather than four days. The monthly is being scratched together now rather than having 10 pms every time you mass for two accounts. However, a good spar arena will always be used by those who still spar, no matter where it is.
Events Sure, other events aren't sexy to the public like ctf is. Doesn't mean they won't join them. Hell, I don't even like ctf much anymore. A few months ago is when it really started. More and more people started lagging on purpose. More and more people kept bitching during events they asked for. Though I haven't seen as much lag now, the bitching still continues. People leave games now all the time and its getting pretty ridiculous. People claim to love ctf; yet they only enjoy it when they are winning. The sense of competition is gone in our community, or whats left of it.
Staff The subject of the 'future of the server' comes up occasionally and a few thoughts are shared, but there has never been a "GC council" per say about it. As for the other staff teams...it'd be great if we could all sit down and talk about the "future" of the server but I doubt that will happen. I can't tell you the last time I saw a GP on tag. Nor can I tell you the last time a FAQ was needed on the server. I can't even tell you the last time 3 or more GCs worked together on anything other than a monthly. Some of the staff teams are more intertwined than others; Dev and GCs are the two most important teams but we hardly ever discuss anything together. It'd certainly be nice to know what direction they have the server going in, since right now the server has a flat tire (or 4).
It's hard to push a server that doesn't want to be pushed back. There's currently very little for the people to do, and you can't expect the GC team to keep people happy until the changes finally do occur. We can do our part, but we can't do it alone.
BTW where have you been rufus?
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 15:47:08 GMT -5
Post by Rufus on Jan 27, 2009 15:47:08 GMT -5
The competitiveness in events had completely died when the good players decided the server wasn't worth their time and moved onto another server like Unholy Nation and N-Pulse. The scrubs (Gemini's extended family) can win events now because of this, so I'm really not surprised that they're playing in them, but they do not get hosted often and they sure as hell don't get enough players participating in them.
I know that you guys feel like you're just working for Night and he tells you what the deal is, but the truth is that Game Coordinators are staff. You have the ability to discuss it as an individual team on here, and the staff teams should probably discuss what ideas, plans or concerns they have with each other. The GC team is completely in the dark about what the Dev team does as far as I know, but apparently the individual devs only get to read a plan of the future, not actually give any input. This is not the fault of the developers, this is not the fault of the GC team, it's the fault of the people in charge and it's not just Master Storm. If the GC team knew what the development team were doing then you'd be able to make new ideas for events, plan releases and keep players online or build up excitement. There's no communication between anyone and this is big ****ing problem.
I don't believe that the GC team are responsible for keeping players online nor keeping players entertained all of the time, but I don't believe you've done enough as a team to prevent the state that it is in now. I'm not blaming the team though. We should all be aware that the lack of insight shown by the development team (mainly Thor) in what players (old and new) actually want is a big contributing factor to the state that it is currently in, but if true opinions were voiced more clearly then we wouldn't really continue with this crappy direction. I don't really care for that though, because I currently find it hilarious.
The Game Coordinator team is something I do like, and you're here to provide entertainment in the form of events. You have the ability to plan and implement server wide events, festivals, special events, leagues, hell you can do a ****load of entertaining things that haven't been done, but you don't as you feel like you can't or something? I think you guys need to aim higher and develop the entertainment beyond basic events and CTF leagues. Decent developers and resources can provide some help if you ever come out with something solid, so start working as a team.
I have been away due to Classic sucking and my PC broke 2 weeks ago or something.
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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 16:09:45 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 27, 2009 16:09:45 GMT -5
Well, any ideas for starting communications between both sides?
Also, what "entertaining things" are you talking about? Do fill us in.
Oh and as for the whole "just working for night" thing; tbh night doesn't log on at all, nor does he log onto the forums much. Honestly its a FFA between the gcs to do whatever we want. That probably doesn't help the situation any. None of us have any real authority and thus nothing is worked on together. Clel is usually working on his npcs and event ideas. Death is...who knows. Gem hosts some. Mystic hosts some. I host some. I recall years ago that occasionally GCs would work/host together: Excal and I both hosted a Battlegrounds event, each supporting a side. The losing GC (excal) had to pay the winning team (babord) tickets. Pretty simple stuff but it doesn't happen anymore. Lack of leadership is partially to blame. The GCs not working together is partially to blame.
Well, time for my Mass Communications class.
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