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Clel
Jan 27, 2009 18:09:05 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 27, 2009 18:09:05 GMT -5
Oh and I did look back to the private area and found an interesting thread.
Most of the GC team + thor occasionally commented on how the team needed to work together and stop fighting; talked about some of the issues; talked about what some GCs were doing; I even threw in a "shouldn't we have a meeting about the future of the server" question out there which never really got answered.
So it appears we do have discussions about the server. They just don't result in anything being done.
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Clel
Jan 28, 2009 5:33:06 GMT -5
Post by cetellic on Jan 28, 2009 5:33:06 GMT -5
Ohmy Rufus gets it folks!
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kill
New Member
Posts: 4
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Clel
Jan 28, 2009 5:56:03 GMT -5
Post by kill on Jan 28, 2009 5:56:03 GMT -5
I ROFL'd for a good 5 minutes straight.
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Clel
Jan 28, 2009 9:42:04 GMT -5
Post by MysticX2X on Jan 28, 2009 9:42:04 GMT -5
SupernicksI'm pretty sure I stated a while back that it was on the ring. A lot of warps got removed from the ring. So why did they chose to remove the supernicks warp instead of the exo warp? Idk. I can guess because exos is far superior and that no one goes to supernicks anymore. Even if you did reinstate the supernicks warp, people will still warp to exos b/c its just better. LOL?!? You were the one debating like Supernicks was never on the warp or could be readded. I was the one constantly reiterating to you that supernicks warp was there, and could be added without difficulty. Obviously, you didn't get my supernicks improvement plan. Oh well, ill explain to you for the 100th time again.... Yes you do. Otherwise there is no debate. If there is no debate to keep it outside city limits, then why debate it SHOULDN'T be in city limits? Actually you haven't even given that debate. All you do is try to make a debate out of everything without even having a stance on something. You can't even make a debate why supernicks couldn't be revamped into a real spar. Fact is that there is no downside to the main spar being in the centralized location. This is where you fall. Rufus is right that it doesn't matter either way for Classic's condition right now, and that it would be convenient if there was actually a community on classic. I just feel it's more comforting in a close range zone. I've already said Master Storm admitted the overworld today is TOO big, and there was some plan to shrink the current overworld, so who knows there. There is currently no downside to the idea, so why do you continue to make this a debate. Oh, andfor the whole "Why should the dev team focus on a spar" debate: Umm, when has the dev team done anything in particular at all? Only Thor has been doing the work around here, and nothing has recently happened to Classic recently except for the new HD, which is being despised atm. Storm already said he was working on a new HD, which is a mixture of clientside and serverside in some senses, so who knows. That's the players choice whether they want to do the quests or not. I've already gave my choices debate, and you already ignored it still prancing the "IM RIGHT YOURE WRONG" debate. Also, you don't act like players just don't pm a GC to get into an event, then be warped back to the bank where they can just skip the quest and tutorial quest for now? Again you're not giving a very valid argument on why forced quests should still be there. Oh wait, you gave the "ITS VERY CONVENIENT FOR CTF" stance. YES!!!!! LET'S DEFEND THE PRIDE OF OUR MOST OVERHOSTED, AND OVERKILLED EVENT AS THE PURE REASON TO KEEP FORCED QUESTING. Oh ahaha, this made me chuckle a bit that I'm considering whether this debate is even worth it. Brining CTF into a defense of any argument is poor desperacy. Oh and the graal castle quest only gives you 1 hp. It still gives a liability in CTF to have someone with 7 hp, so congradulations on the debate. Btw, i didn't say that the 2 hp isn't utilized. I strongly recommend the players to do the quests, but i wouldn't want to turn this server into a dictatorship where you're 'forced' to do things just to even experience server play at all. I kind of like the server where i can get in, and start looking around to see if the server itself pleases my eyes. I believe it was two times. Either way, Gemini is bound to host CTF every day as his only event to host. What point is coming out of this specific debate? Honestly, Gladius....You need new priorities then trying to make a debate out of a non-implicated debate. I guess Rufus is also right that the GC Team needs to reorganize itself a bit, because now, our overhosting of CTF has just necessarily killed events down a bit. Over the past year, CTF actually wasn't the only event to get even over 5 people, but now it is. Will we get our act together? Probably not. Why? Because we have huge disagreements, such as this thread, and the fact our GC Admin checks in once every 3 weeks. That is an overstatement to say one NBA game can get 18 million more viewers than any other regular NBA Game. Unless it was actually a play off game, or some special game of the undefeated east and west teams playing off, but doubtuflly getting that much more of a margin than another game. Umm, i think i remember me getting only one person for fortbuilder one day on an 15-18+ playercount. The only people who still do log on Classic only want CTF or just to idle. There is very little argument as 2 people have now just told you that CTF shuns the other events out. What serious debate are you making out of this? You already admitted CTF gets way more, so why do we continue to talk. Just give it up already, Gladius. This is where you neglect once again, his influence on Steven Bico, MLK, Nelson Mendela, etc., who all were civil rights leaders in respective countrys. Yeah Civil Rights revolutions are bound to happen, but stop trying to predict a possibility that can't happen now. The fact is that he influenced others. Could it of happened without his influence? Nobody knows, but the fact is it did happen with influence. You try to give stances on such unimaginable situations that it would make me frown to be your debate team coach. Now here you go trying to compare freedom fighters with a communist who believed in a non-captailist society?!? LOL!!!! I'm not even going to debate whatever else you said since you went from civil rights leaders to communist leaders, who both struggled for different things. These civil rights leaders actually affected their countries in a positive effect, while Stalin affected countries with a negative effect 1 billion people. What do you expect? Point being? Here you go again with your "Im right youre wrong" stance. At times where you think you're always right, it's not fun debating with arrogancy. Proving you stupid is a whole other ballpark though
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Clel
Jan 28, 2009 12:57:22 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 28, 2009 12:57:22 GMT -5
SupernicksWell let's take a look to how mystic is wrong as usual: Mystic's claim: LOL?!? You were the one debating like Supernicks was never on the warp or could be readded. I was the one constantly reiterating to you that supernicks warp was there, and could be added without difficulty. Shocking, because I'm pretty sure I stated this wayyyy back at the beginning of this at page 5: Well last time I checked you could warp to exos pretty quickly, and you can't warp to supernicks anymore. In his next post, mystic ignored me and stated this: Also, Supernicks used to have a warp. It wasn't a useful warp so it was removed in this whole "warp ring cleanup". So in my next post I remind him that I did in fact mentioned the warp, which he obviously ignored (again) judging from the top quote. BTW I already stated you can't warp to supernicks anymore so thanks for including two sentances about it. So it looks like mystic is wrong again. Not shocking. Moving on... Here's why you shouldn't have the spar in the city limits: Unless you can build supernicks into a damn better spar arena than exo's that includes a warp, shut the **** up and use exo's. It's better. It's faster. It's what we have. Until supernicks becomes better and faster than exos, there is no reason to remove it. If you can do that, then by all means remove exos and have everyone enjoy the revamped spar "within city limits". Otherwise, don't **** with the status quo because it's pretty damn good as is. QuestingYou just don't get it, do you? Not only did I mention more activities than CTF, but you yourself said that (paraphrase) "ctf is the only event that people join". So if it's the only event being hosted/joined, then it's pretty damn significant. But lets not kid outselves. It's not the only event being hosted. More on that later. Lets bring in the big guns: I used to work at a grocery store as a cashier. At our store, the prices listed on the shelves were the prices with the reward card we had people sign up for. If they didn't have the card, they would pay more on many items in the store. Now, we didn't force people to sign up for the card. So what happened many times? People didn't sign up for one, and thus they had to pay more on their items. It was especially fail when those same people would come in multiple times, in essence paying a hell of a lot more than they would have normally, if only they would have just signed up for the damn card the first time. If eventually they were convinced or inspired into signing up after the first visit, then they would have missed out on discounts on their first couple purchases. Now, flip the coin. Had they signed up for the card on the first visit, which many people did, they would have saved money each time and would have been uber happy. Hell they might even come back when they might normally go elsewhere. The point is, if you do it the first time, you don't have to be bothered by it every other single ****ing time you go there. Why not get it out of the way the first time? It's the smart thing to do. If you have to 'force' people to do it to go to/shop at your server/store, you'll probably lose a player/customer or two. But the people that do quest/sign up are going to enjoy their time at the store/server much more than without doing the quest/signing up. Get it yet? CTFPoint is, again, that other events besides ctf are hosted, and that people will and do join those events. Besides, gem hosted guild wars or w/e it was that morning, so you're just looking retarded by claiming "Gemini is bound to host CTF every day as his only event to host." Does he host ctf more than the rest of us? Sure. Is that the only event he hosts? Nope. Wrong again mystic. NBAYeah...I said those numbers were made up. Try to read. People vote for CTF over other events. People watch Lakers vs Celtics over other games. Yet people will still play other events. If they didn't join your event once then boo-****ing-hoo. People will watch other NBA games too, which you yourself said. Don't associate what happened to you with what happens to everyone. Players join non-ctf events other GCs host. To claim otherwise is foolish. HistoryAgain you continue to focus on the "communist dictator" factor far more than anything else. Don't discount the man because he has a different political party than you. The man didn't have a "negative impact" either. Sure, some people died. You have to break some eggs to make an omelet. He turned a nation of farmers into a world super power. Last time I checked, India is no where near that status. Hell, they're still just getting into the nuclear arms race. I do recall russia doing that back in the...oh..was it the 1950's? Talk about a blast from the past. Just goes to show you how far behind india is. Russia > India; therefor Stalin's contributions > Gandhi's contributions. IndiaI expect them to take care of their people. It's called a social contract. The people obey the laws/government in exchange for protection and basic needs. Clearly the government isn't upholding their end of the bargain. Surprising the people haven't revolted in hopes of better conditions. But w/e. Right onWell, I am right. You are wrong. Since this is the case, why should I take any other stance? I read my history books, I did my research. I played in the events you say people don't join. I've hosted events you claim people don't want, and got people. Exos is better than supernicks, so don't change it unless you can make supernicks better. The NBA comparison is clearly beyond your grasp. I hope my job comparison isn't, but I'm sure you'll try to find fault in it where there is none. I valued the intelligent posts rufus put in recently since they are correct. I don't value the garbage you put in claiming you're right when you're not. Wake up and smell the coffee. You are mistaken; the facts say so.
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Clel
Jan 29, 2009 10:33:08 GMT -5
Post by MysticX2X on Jan 29, 2009 10:33:08 GMT -5
just wow.....
Supernicks Holy poo, do you not get it? I acknowledged 300 times Supernicks warp was removed. I don't need to explain myself 100 more times when i said it could be reinstated very easily.
My suggestion was to improve supernicks into a real spar arena. There is clearly no downside to it. But obviously the fact that the warp can be put back isn't getting into your thick skull, so i'll stop here.
Questing Well it's their fault if they didn't quest. What more can i say? They might screw our events, but that's all the more reason to pick them last.
Thanks for including a real world situation, but most grocery stores i been to have a savings card, which is completely optional. Could it be convenient? Yes. And here you go again saying if it was forced, you'd lose a couple customers. I think for Classic right now, we need as many players as we can get. Setting hindrances in place is nothing but a nuisance for our community.
Thanks again for bringing up a completely useless example though.
Oh, and I don't think you should be spoon fed all your life, so i say nay for forced questing. The players have a choice.
And before you go prancing on about how you're so "right" and all, why doesn't somebody lay a poll and actually see what the PLAYERS have to say about forced questing. I can tell you right now the outcome comes in my favor.
CTF Umm....No.
For a person who logs on Classic for 2 minutes every 2 days, you know very much, don't you?
Well let me give you the perspective of a GC who logs on for more than that, and has hosted more than you in the past month:
I host fortbuilder or pit. I get 1 or 2 players, which is pathetic to even carry on the event, so i cancel the event. This has happened several times on occasion, unless it's CTF, which barely gets past 8 people nowadays. My point is that CTF's reliancy has gotten to the point of where people will boycott the event until they get what they want. Do other events get joined? Yes. Is it to the point where there's a severly low amount of people that the event is either cancelled or ended boringly.
Actually, i even did a test one day. I hosted Sumo allstar with an extra prize of choosing my next event. I got 8 people, all determined to win and choose CTF. What did the winner choose? Shockingly not , CTF.
Also...Gemini only hosts guildwars or CTF. Heck he pms me all the time to host CTF.
NBA I think I'd be satisfied if i had either 5 million people join my event, or 2 million who join my event. Stop comparing a highly viewed sports broadcast to a barely played crappy 2d game.
History Make the rich poor, and make the poor rich? Great beliefs, Gladius. You'll go far as our future president.
Again you continue to focus on economic standards. Where did i mention at all India's Economic standards?
Also, nobody liked Stalin. Heck, his own country even despised him. Why do you compare him to people that were actually liked and looked up to?
You're making a stupid debate, and I'm not going on.
India 1 billion people is hard to take care of.
end.
Right on I didn't know Graal was in our history books, but thanks for notifying me.
Fact is, you can't even give your own points. You don't read what i say at most times, and you make every stupid thing a debate.
My point: You've been wrong a lot here. Have i been wrong a bit too? Probably. But at least I'm not acting like Mr. Right being a cocky fool.
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Clel
Jan 29, 2009 12:57:51 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 29, 2009 12:57:51 GMT -5
Super Until you build a revamped supernicks that is better than exos, don't even suggest it. Exos is pretty darn good and you can instantly warp there. Until supernicks is to that level, no need to change things.
Quest If you play on a server for a serious amount of time, you do the quests. Pure and simple. If you're going to a server just to chat with people, then you don't need to be there. Classic doesn't need squatters right now (or ever). It needs a committed player base that wants to play there. If you're a commited player, you've done the quests.
CTF Thanks for just proving me correct. Earlier you claim no one joins anything but ctf. Yet you just said you got 8 players for sumo allstar. Then you said the people voted for ctf afterwards, which is exactly what I've said all along. People will always vote for ctf, yet they will still play in other events. In your case it was backwards but it still holds true. Thanks for proving me correct.
NBA Seeing how that you proved me correct in the above area maybe you'll understand the nba comparison now. But not likely.
History Russia > India. End.
Right Who's more stupid? The guy who makes every stupid thing a debate or the guy who debates with him over stupid things?
You've been wrong the entire time kthx.
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Clel
Jan 29, 2009 21:09:36 GMT -5
Post by MysticX2X on Jan 29, 2009 21:09:36 GMT -5
Super We had a fairly long pm discussion about this matter on Classic, and we both agreed to the ups and downs. Supernicks looks like kind of a bad place to spar atm, compared to Exodus. But my point was that we could freshen up the Supernicks levels, throw in some spar scripts, try to jazz everything up, and re-release it as something even better. The oldbies might complain but who cares? They don't play anymore.
There is currently no down side to moving a spar closer to a centralized location. Time consuming? Probably. But it was just a thought
Quest In real life, everyone wants you to get an education, and a good standard job to prove usefulness in societies standard. No question there eh? Moving on. This can be applied to Graal, and i guess i will have to use CTF as our example on it as well. People want you to get the 2 hp, and get your skills up on Classic, so you can prove usefulness in events, particularly team events such as CTF. Moving on. These all are what people want of you, but what if society one day forces you to get an education, and a good job. Kept you in a cell until you could prove yourself worthy. Does that sound remotely like a democracy to you? (Mind you, we are speaking in American Standard. No other country). Sounds like a castro-type dictatorship to me. Sure we all want our noobs to be even hearted, but we shouldn't just force them. I mean, if you want to bring up the fact of the hearts in event, and if Night actually cared about some people not having 8 hp, a rule could easily be set in place to kick anybody without 8 hp, or make everyone in events have 8 hp. Fact is, that isn't fair. Fact is, forcing people to quest while they might want to pk/spar immediately isn't fair. I understand your reasoning for forced questing, but you're taking it too far where you think driving a few players away isn't bad.
CTF I said very little to nobody joins CTF. I even happened to mention i get a pathetic amount where i sometimes cancel the event because I'm so displeased at how some people treat events these days. I said this all so i don't know where I'm proving you correct.
We recently just chatted that CTF is indeed our best event, and overhosted, as stated several times in the post. We can get past that, and now focus on how we can get CTF balanced out with other events so people don't have to rely on that event for entertainment. 2 GC's working their heads together for a special event could give a good outcome, and you don't exactly need Night for much since the GC Tools provide a lot anyways.
NBA I don't consider a couple million compared to 8 million a pathetic viewer count tbh. I consider a couple people considered to 8 people pretty pathetic though. Sorry, but ratios just won't work here.
History You recently pm'ed me that both Gandhi and Stalin made some huge impacts on their countrys, good or bad. We can get past that. Also Russia has more natural resources than india putting them in a better place for economic standard (i think). But then again, both these countries don't really fall on the top economies in the world. Let's put that debate aside though i guess.
Right The guy who makes every stupid thing a debate imo.
I've really haven't been wrong at most parts, unlike yourself.
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Clel
Jan 29, 2009 21:47:37 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 29, 2009 21:47:37 GMT -5
Super Until a new supernicks is released for comparison, exos is the best we got. Supernicks does need a makeover though.
Quest You do know that you have to go to school right? I don't know the exact law or anything but I asked around and I was told it was kindergarten to 16 years of age. That kind of sounds like forced schooling to me.
When you buy a new car, often there is a down payment you have to make that you cannot avoid . If you're going to drive the car, you have to make the payment first. Consider the quests as a down payment to play on classic. If you're not doing to spend your time using all the stuff the staff worked hard on, then we don't want you here.
Now, I think the tule village was mainly designed for trials/first time graal players. That should be mandatory for all the newbs. People who have played other servers don't need to go through it, so there needs to be a system in place to differentiate between the two groups. Now, graal castle is a different story. Staff worked long and hard to make that quest, and the least the new people (to the server) can do is complete the simple 30 minute quest to show they mean business about spending time on classic.
As for the part about: "you think driving a few players away isn't bad." Look dawg. The largest single drop off in football is between the 7th and 8th grades (first two years of junior high in my area). The coaches are pretty strict and take no mercy on the kids. You lose a bunch of people between the two grades. But those are either guys who really had no business playing football or weren't committed to the team. What you have left is a group of committed and determined players. Sure, classic might lose some players. But they were never really interested in classic. They just wanted to talk to people. The people that do take the time to do the simple quests are most likely committed to the server. Sounds like what we need right now.
God damnit how the **** did I just type four paragraphs. It's a good thing when you're trying essays since once you start, everything just starts to flow. For posting on forums...its clearly not so good. I'm going to stop here before I add more paragraphs.
CTF People still join other events dawg. They just prefer ctf. A delicate balance needs to be found by the GCs that will keep a variety yet still keep people happy.
NBA Left side is graal, right side is NBA. The : stands for 'compares to'
People prefer to play CTF : People prefer to watch Celtics vs Lakers People still join other events : People still watch other games.
I really can't make it any more clear than that.
History If you say so comrade.
Right You have been wrong actually, including your last statement under this bold topic.
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Clel
Jan 31, 2009 14:30:31 GMT -5
Post by MysticX2X on Jan 31, 2009 14:30:31 GMT -5
Sad to see you comment little on the more important things
Super Fair enough.
Quest 40 percent of highschoolers don't graduate. At least that is according to a commercial i saw. The numbers could be fabricated but oh well. No one forces you to get a good job or at least be useful to society, as no one should force you to get 2 hp to get good at ctf.
Umm the down payment is part of paying for the car. The new players gave their down payment when buying their p2p account. Very very moot point. And at this point, I think Classic needs as many new players as they can get. That's very foolish to say we don't want more players because they might not feel very obliged to do the quests before they even know if the server will be enjoyable in the long run.
I suggested the idea to have a starting location with a warp sign to tule village for new players to go to if they are unsure of how to play.
Staff work hard on a lot of things. Some will appraise it, some might not. But to force someone to appraise your work is nothing more than selfishness.
Look. All I'm saying is that no one should be forced to do a tutorial quest where you have to talk to so many figures to even pass that, and then do a semi-long unhintful quest. We can keep debating, but nothing will succumb in the long run. But most people believe that forced questing was a terrible move on this servers behalf. So if most of the community thinks it wasn't a good idea, then why continue to defend it? Seems you're not so pro-democracy. It could create liabilities in events, but then again, a lot of things create liabilities. That and the fact some people don't even do the quest and pm in for an event just to merely skip it. In fact, you can't even go anywhere on the overworld without finishing graal city. That seems like imprisonment to me. Please try and keep your socialist comments to yourself next time.
A social game doesn't compare to a dedicated game of football. Some people come to this server just to do nothing more than socialize. You need to stop giving sports points because as far as it has gone, they sucked.
CTF CTF has been sucking lately too. Not even that is satisfying the players lately. Maybe it fell in line with it being hosted way too often, and the new addition of a HD in which laggers will rule.
NBA This point sucks altogether. How about that? Each and every game is watched by millions of people. I think any game will be watched majorly by their home state/city. Who plays Classic events other than CTF? Close to none. I can't make it any more clearer than that, but then again, you have to make a debate out of everything.
History *salutes*
Right Most of these are opinionated debates anyways. But you're wrong as in that you think most of the server even believes what you're debating about. You're on a one man ship here, sir.
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Clel
Jan 31, 2009 16:15:01 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Jan 31, 2009 16:15:01 GMT -5
Quest Tule village is skipable. Thor said so in another thread, and WD said it during the game. Graal castle isn't, as far as I know. Don't ever throw in the "community doesn't like it" because you can't speak for them. I won't even use your poll as evidence because 10 ppl isn't a large enough sample size (I took statistics class senior year). And no, I'm not overly pro-democracy. Sure, the people have an opinion. But many opinions are misinformed about the topic and otherwise pretty stupid. Hell I didn't even vote in the election because honestly I didn't follow it enough to understand both sides, and I really hate politics in this country. But thats another topic for another time. Anyways, what's the difference between doing the quest first thing and doing it the third time you come to classic (if it wasn't forced)? Well, if you did it the first time, you'd be more competitive with the other players the rest of your days on the server. If you waited till our third time or so, you would be at a disadvantage until then. Mmmm...sounds familar to my grocery store comparison. Save money from the start...or pay more money until you finally do it. Moving on, talking isn't the only thing you can do to socialize. What's better than questing with your buddies? Sounds pretty social to me. If I recall, you, kill, and myself did some of that on era. If a person is on the server to talk, then they aren't committed to being there. That doesn't help classic at all.
Ctf + NBA Yeah no one plays anything not named ctf...except everyone that's joined the events I've hosted the past week. Go figure.
Right Most of what server? Besides, most of the people that play classic, or at least used, are idiots.
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Kevin
Full Member
Posts: 157
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Clel
Feb 1, 2009 12:01:56 GMT -5
Post by Kevin on Feb 1, 2009 12:01:56 GMT -5
Graal University regrets to inform you that after reviewing your Doctoral Theses', we cannot grant you a Ph.D at this time.
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Clel
Feb 1, 2009 12:03:13 GMT -5
Post by gladius on Feb 1, 2009 12:03:13 GMT -5
Guess I'll have to go back to McDonalds then.
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kill
New Member
Posts: 4
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Clel
Feb 2, 2009 6:50:49 GMT -5
Post by kill on Feb 2, 2009 6:50:49 GMT -5
rofl Kevin.
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Clel
Feb 2, 2009 9:34:10 GMT -5
Post by MysticX2X on Feb 2, 2009 9:34:10 GMT -5
Gladius' response to Kevin was pretty lame.
Btw, we can drop the forced questing as Thor claims it isn't forced to non-trials. Oh well.
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